2009 CIC IT Accessibility and Usability Working Group Annual Summer Conference Proceedings
Slice of Life Panel Discussion
You can download and listen to an audio recording of the Slice of Life Panel Presentation (mp3, 54MB)
or listen to it using the accessible player below (requires Adobe Flash):
>> What time is it by your time please, gentlemen?
[ Inaudible Remark ]
>> Excellent. Okay, we're ready I think with the minor exception to continue our--the formal part of the program for the day. We have had some attrition because people were having to drive back to points north and south so our group has shrunk in size a tiny bit.
I have a couple of housekeeping announcements as usual. The percentage chance for rain is now 60. [Laughter] Therefore, we will be having the reception in the Georgian Room which is a room on this floor of the union and if you had down basically this quarter of hallways, passed the bookstore; it's just passed the bookstore on your left. It will still be a wonderful reception but the ambiance will not be nearly as nice as the Tree Suite Garden, but there will be no mosquitoes. I think that's true.
I would like to say that we're lucky to have had a couple of students with us today which I think is wonderful because they are in fact the end users of much of what we've been discussing today. The one student is here because the Adaptive Technology and Accessibility Center's felt that it was important enough to have students that we've provided the scholarship registration fee for that student. And the student is a PhD student in Library and Information Sciences and is from Thailand and is very interested in taking back what she learns here to her country. So she's shy and said she didn't want to say anything and I will not point to her, but I'm delighted that she was able to join us today. So--
[ Applause ]
>> We're going to have a panel presentation which is a sort of slice of life for how one university went about doing a number of things, acquiring of course management system, thinking about the overall picture of web accessibility and standards. Developing an accessible website or as accessible as we could make it be using the new content management system and then doing some web accessibility testing. And we have people from several different units which I think is one of the reasons I wanted to do this Slice of Life because it has taken people from a variety of units to cause this to happen. And I think rather than introducing everyone, I will let each person introduce themselves, though I will begin by introducing the first speaker who is Rebecca Salerno who works in the office of Creative Services. They're so creative their name changes from time to time. [Laughter] So sometimes I forget what it currently is. Anyway she is the one of the engines and people that has started the web standards committee for the university. And this is a university-wide committee. So Rebecca?
>> Alright. As Margaret said, I work in the Office of Creative Services here at Indiana University. And our Creative Services Division is a fee-for-service unit that provides print and website products to university clients. So we do charge a fee for all of our work. And as we have gone out and worked with clients around the university, we certainly felt a need for there to be standards for websites in a variety of ways. Accessibility of course means something that was very important to us as a group and as we started to develop our work. But there was no group on campus that was wholly responsible for establishing web standards for websites. I wanted to do this not only to work with my team to provide websites that were of the highest quality for the university, but also to give our clients who may be could not afford to do a website or we're trying to do things in house, was there some way that we could provide some guidance to them, to their web development team in terms of the quality that Indiana University was looking for in its websites and its overall web presence.
So, 2 years ago in late 2007, I got together with a group of colleagues and we had a meeting and we talked about how we needed web standards at Indiana University and was there any reason why we couldn't go ahead and as a group can be grassroots effort go ahead and start establishing some web standards. And so we've been meeting every 2 weeks ever since that time, and several of us got together, Tom Atkinson and another colleague, Mike Halla from UITS. We got together and we put together some kind of directives [inaudible] up committees that were part of the Web Standards Group, and then we reached out to people like Margaret Londergan and said, you know--would you be interested in sharing the sub committee and you know being the shepherd to establish some standards for various aspects of the web environment in Indiana University. So our sub-committees have been working, Margaret's group that's been focusing on accessibility has recently wrapped up the first round of their work and they've been working with the university policy office and with--Margaret remind me of the other group that you worked with that was the Affirmative Action--Office of Affirmative Action. And it looks like accessibility is well on its way to becoming an official set of guidelines for website set in Indiana University. And we're also in our work looking toward communication channels so that we can reach out to web developers across the university. And we're in the beginning stages of setting up a Wiki so that we can start to have a dialogue with people throughout the university and let them know what our standards are as professionals and start to communicate with them more.
So it is really just a grassroots effort but it just shows you that if you can get a group of people together who are interested in a topic like accessibility, you can start at your university or school to make it something that everybody cares about and has a stake and makes happen in their web environment.
[ Inaudible Remarks ]
>> I will go back on what I said, this is Bob Flynn and you're a group of UITS and external--
>> I'll introduce myself. [Laughter] Right. So--
>> Well, he's going to talk about course management--acquisition of course management system.
>> Content management system. Yes. You don't wanna hear about the access--the acquisition of a course management system, believe me. So my name is Bob Flynn. I work for Central IT Division, UITS. My current position is a Manager of IT Community Partnerships. During the timeline that I'm going to talk about now that I worked at our business school and I was--devoted part of my time to the web contact management system task force and project. So back in early 2007, a task force was put together to set the vision for the acquisition of a web content management system. My colleagues to the left here, I believe, were on that task force. It ended up being a little bit more than just a look at our content web management system, but really an examination of our entire web environment and some of the recommendations that are pertinent here that came out were that most websites at our university were not accessible. If we acquire the WCMS, we need to build accessibility into it. I'll come back to that in a moment. We need to work harder to teach accessibility requirements. And one of the main recommendations coming out of the task force stated impart, if the future Web CMS does not by itself fully address accessibility needs, then best practices need to be developed and awareness of those practices increased. I believe and speaking for my own perspective, it was a little bit naive to think that accessibility could be built into a tool. Many tools have tried that. Dreamweaver has its nice little pop-up for accessibility for certain elements. But really the bottom line is educating your web developers to know how to build accessible sites.
The vision task force handed off to another group that was asked to assess the needs for WCMS. We went through an extensive process of everybody listing what their top priorities were. As you can imagine not everyone's priorities are the same. Accessibility was identified as one of the top priorities. But even in that there are 2 issues that play. One is the accessibility certainly of the websites that are built. The other is the accessibility of the tool to build the websites. And that--those are not always compatible interests. As I mentioned before and maybe this is just a little of my own personal bias but really it's not up to the tool to build accessible websites, it's up to your developers.
>> We looked at the number of candidates both Open Source and commercial. We were not thrilled with any of them. It's a market that still expanding very easily, 500 different contact management systems out there. The number certainly decreases when you look at enterprise ready content management systems. We went through, we've identified a couple of final contenders and went through the demonstrations by the vendors. Now, we even held some training sessions to give our local developer hands-on experience with them. I know from having taught one of those hands-on sessions that from the accessibility of the tool itself for a user with accessibility needs, it was not easy to use the tools to build websites and I think that was certainly the case with everything that we've looked at. Once we were through that process, we put out a formal RFP. During the course of the RFP, another vendor emerge, Hannon Hill's Cascade Server, and I was told there are others in the room that are using Cascade Server. Was there anybody? Where are you?
>> Michigan State.
>> Michigan State, alright, is using Cascade Server. Cascade Server was chosen largely in part for its scalability and flexibility and not for its usability. I fell into the other camp the thought that you needed to make the people using the tool happy not the people providing the tool. But the truth is that from a technical standpoint, it's a very good Web CMS. We got final presentations from the vendors and then went with Cascade Server. The--I think that the importance of your choice of the WCMS again is partially irrelevant because training is important. But one thing that a good WCMS will do for you is provide the ability to output your content in multiple ways. And that is something that Cascade Server does very well. And I think when Tom and Greg talk about this most recent project, they'll speak to that. Who's up next?
>> Is it time now to talk about the most recent project?
>> You're the man.
[ Pause ]
>> Good afternoon. My name is Tom Atkinson. I'm the Campus Web Manager here at Indiana University, Bloomington. We accepted the challenge of creating a new website and we accepted the challenge of doing so in the university's new enterprise level content management system. The previous version of the campus website that we had was 7 years old. They hadn't been redesigned since 2002. And although it was built on the cutting edge of technology available at that time, you know, on the internet, that's like 70 years in terms of development. So it was very much not anymore on the cutting edge of web standards, and sadly, accessibility. It wasn't a very dynamic site. So in some sense it was easy to provide some degree of accessibility. Providing alternative texts for graphics was pretty much all we had to handle, because other than that it was plain texts, hyperlinks, nothing dynamic, nothing engaging. But it did actually use a table-based layout which is, you know, now abhorrent. And for a major world class research institution, in our opinion it was just unacceptable. Unfortunately, it took us a few years to get to the point where we had the administrative stability and backing to be able to push this project through to completion, so that leads us to where we are now.
The redesign itself, graphic design and technical programming were provided by the Office of Creative Services which Rebecca and Greg here represent. We also had the awesome resources available to us from the adopted technology and accessibility centers. Margaret and her staff were an excellent resource that we tap into to provide accessibility consulting and evaluation. We also were able to make use of usability testing here on campus provided by the User Experience Group which is a division of University Information Technology Services. Bob was able to help us interface with their staff and successfully complete an evaluation of the new site. But before I show you what we've come up with, I want to make the point that, you know, we're not up here presenting this site as the new gold standard, quite the opposite in fact. We recognize that it is not perfect and it is a work in progress. However it has leaps and bounds beyond what the site used to be. And my major point that I want to make here is that we were given the mandate that the site needed to be more dynamic, more interactive, more bells and whistles. And we've found a way to provide that to the satisfaction of administration and still maintain our personal commitment to information accessibility.
[ Pause ]
>> The URL of the Bloomington campus website for Indiana University is www.iub.edu, and here we have the new site. It conforms to our institutional guidelines for identity and branding. It includes Flash player module on the homepage that presents a rotation of featured photography that all link out to separate news stories.
[ Pause ]
>> I'm sorry?
[ Inaudible Remark ]
>> I'm going to address that fact. It also includes 2 smaller informational graphics and a video player all built into the single module. For many years I was staunchly anti-Flash and opposed really any use of Flash other than presenting just video or just animation on the web. Luckily, we were able to leverage the power of the content management system in our own talented programmers to sidestep the issue that flashes complete inaccessible. Now Adobe has done some great things in trying to build some accessibility features into Flash. However, the other operating systems and browsers that they have to play with are not playing nicely and so Flash still, despite Adobe's best efforts, remain largely inaccessible. It is the proverbial black box that you can't really get anything meaningful out of without, you know, the most recent version of the Flash player and the full technological and physical ability to use that. But we sidestep that issue by basically saying if you don't have Flash and can't use it to its fullest extent, we'll just take that out of the equation. And all of the content that we're providing through this Flash player, we're providing simply through basic HTML. So if you did not have Flash installed or had Flash deactivated or you have java scripting deactivated, what you would see is something more like.
[ Pause ]
>> Allow me to deactivate java scripting, which is the same--has the same effect as deactivating or failing to install the Flash player.
[ Pause ]
>> You get what is essentially the same site. It's not different information. It's exactly the same information, and it's presented by enlarge and exactly the same way. Rather than seeing 5 images that rotate through one after another, you see one large central image that tells the same story for which we provide alternative text and serves as a link to story for more information.
>> But also you can see an additional link for see more featured stories. And if you were to click on that see more featured stories link, it would take you to a single page which displays all of those 5 images which were previously rotating through the Flash player all at one time all on a single page with alternative text and hyperlinks for each one. In the same way what were originally just 2 components of the Flash module are now simply plain graphic images with alternative text that service hyperlinks. And then the video player which is built into the Flash module is actually just the basic images and basic texts that serves as a link to a full page that if we didn't have Flash disabled would also contain a separate Flash player that plays this individual video here but then also contains a full text transcript of the video. So allow me to re-enable Flash here.
[ Pause ]
>> And show you that the video player, if you choose to watch the video that is featured on the homepage at anytime, it replaces all of that content that's held in the Flash module. And then the video plays evidently without sounds. And we have for each video presented in this way provided close captioning that you can turn on or off. The default is--is that's it's turned on but it's just a one click to turn it off. You can play the videos in full stream mode, it retains the close captioning. If you do so, you can mute it, you can adjust the volume. It pretty much gives you full capabilities in an accessible manner by providing close captioning. Or if the--if Flash player was turned off or you didn't have java script to be enable and couldn't get to the Flash player and therefore get to the close captioning, you could go to the plain text transcript. So we were able to provide dynamic content in the form of videos, moving images, and we were able to do so in an accessible manner because we had the--what I consider to be the 3 pieces of the puzzle that you need to be able to provide content accessibly on the web. The first is knowledge. Our staff is aware of the issues involved in accessibility and mindful of those issues as we approach the development process. The second is desire. The entire team was committed from the very first day to building a website that was not just meeting the needs of administration in terms of engaging the audience and being colorful and flashy, but also was accessible to all of our users.
And the third piece was the infrastructure. We had resources available to us here at the institution that allowed us to put our knowledge and our desire into action. So we have the tools. We had the talent and I'd like to say that we have the time. But in all honesty, we didn't have much time at all. We were given a very aggressive deadline for completing this project and it really came down to the cooperation and partnership of people like Margaret and Rebecca and units like the Adaptive Technology and Accessibility Center, the user experience group to make this happen. So hopefully you could see that this website is an example of ways in which dynamic content can be provided without being an obstacle to accessibility. Flash is not the ideal tool but there are ways to get around it by basically taking Flash out of the equation. And we have achieved this technologically by using XML to feed content into the Flash player which is the same exact content that is fed to the page if Flash is disabled or if java scripting is disabled. This is not the creation of a--of a separate but equal website where, you know, back in the day, you might have had a link up in the upper left hand corner to your text-only version that has to be separately maintained and separately monitored. We were committed to doing this both for our own sanity and hopefully for our users all in one. One piece of content updated in one place at one time and that could be fed either into the Flash player where it would be rotated and animated or simply to the screen as basic HTML and plain text.
So accessibility is obviously multifaceted concern for visitors with hearing impairment, they might need video captioning. They might need transcripts of audio files. For visitors with a visual impairment, they would want a transcript of video. They could listen to it, but they would want a transcript so their screen reader could access it. They would need alternative texts for any graphics that were provided. In terms of technological impairments, if you were using in this day and age as it's increasingly common, a smartphone or an iPhone or a mobile device that does not provide Flash functionality. You need to be able to access that same content outside the boundaries of Flash player. And thankfully, the content management system has allowed us to enter content once, one time in one location, and be able to provide it in these alternative ways. And although I do have the technical background, I have no idea how this works. It is very much like magic to me. The way it is that via XML to Flash or to HTML is well beyond me. So it does make the nice point that it is possible to create accessibility features that don't require technical staffing to maintain. Certainly, it does take technical staffing to create those features. I would now welcome up my colleague Greg Polit, who will talk about the intricacies, this magic that the web content management system performs to translate this content. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Tom. My name is Greg Polit. I work for Office of Creative Services. And while Rebecca focuses mostly on creative, I focus on technical aspects of web development. And we've had--we've had the pleasure on working on redesign on this, on the Bloomington website using the brand new tool that was introduced only I think a month before we started working on this project. But what we wanted to do is really maximize the power that it brings. And you know, accessibility was one of the, one of the things that we're able to achieve using this tool. You know with accessibility you have the basic, basic infrastructure but it's also content, so you need to merge technology and content, because you can have a great tool that allows you to publish accessible web pages. But if you don't put accessible content into it, it doesn't, it doesn't help you very, very much. On the flipside, you can also have great accessible content. But if you have to, if you have to maintain it in multiple versions, you know, that can be very, very time consuming. There is nothing here that really couldn't, couldn't be done with static HTML CSS, but when you think about how much, how much time it would take to maintain website, well like this throughout the year, if you have to maintain the same content in the XML format and then you have to update all the, all the pages that allow it for it to be accessible, you know that can, that can easily, that can easily add up.
[ Pause ]
>> So let's start with the campus tour.
[ Pause ]
>> We can see here is I'm just kind of navigating through that, [inaudible] through that site structure.
[ Pause ]
>> So essentially, essentially what happens is that the publishers publish--Now go into the form like interface and they published all the information of that is used both into the--in the Flash application and also in the non-Flash application. So that there are some elements then that would never appear in the Flash version but they would appear in the non-flash alternative, so what you have to do is make sure that all of those, all of those assets are loaded. Now here in this case, there are just different size photos that are used on the tour and then, and then the description of the slide show. And then what the Web CMS will do is it will take all of this, all of this information that was entered into the structure. It will take the folders and it will create an album and a slide show per album for each folder in the CMS and publish, and publish this information into the XML file that is then kind of pulled into the Flash application. And it will also publish an alternative version of this, of the same information which is done in any or old fashion HTML CSS. So let me show one other, one other example and then I can take some questions if you have any.
The video module is probably the most--was the most challenging one of all because there is, there is a lot of information of that needs to be published in a video to make it, to make it accessible. So Tom already talked about closed captioning information and you saw the transcript information and the thumbnail used on the website. So there's a lot of information that needs to be entered into a video asset to make it--to then make it, make it useful to build the Flash player application and to the accessible version. So you can see here that when the publishers load the video, they need to provide of course the Flash, the Flash video file. That's what is played on the website, the thumbnail image, some information about the asset and then, you know, this is--this is a lot of work. You need to provide closed captioning information and when you saw the video that Tom played is--now when you play the video, your closed captioning information changes depending on, depending on the time code. So, all of this information needs to be loaded into the CMS. Now pretty much any, anyone could do this. It doesn't require a lot of technical expertise. You know you could have your intern or someone like that look at the video and do the closed captioning information. You can use, you can use some closed captioning services to do this, although I think our experience has been that if you're using an automated closed captioning service, it's not--you don't get exactly the right information. It's close, but not quite there. So someone still has to look at it, edit it to, you know, do some quality control on it. But you can see that here essentially that this allows you to enter the closed captioning information, enter the time code for it, and then enter some additional information. And again, this wouldn't really be used in the video in the closed captioning section, but it would be used in the transcript section.
So the way we do transcripts is instead of having a third version of the content, you know, so you have your video version, your closed captioning and that you get another version of the transcript. What we do is we compile all the closed captioning information, and all the additional information, all the visual information that might be included in the video. So if there is, if there--you know, if the video shows a sphere or a globe and it contains some visual information that you might want to--that's meaningful content, you would enter this in the additional information field.
>> And then what the system will do is, it will, it will compile all of these information and essentially produce a video transcript. So as you can see, making videos accessible is a lot of work but as in educate--as an institution of higher learning, I think we're required to do so and we tried to build systems that promote this type of behavior. Are there any questions that I can answer this, at this time?
[ Inaudible Question ]
>> Yes, there is and that's a very good point and that's actually something that we didn't realize until we did the accessibility test with Margaret's groups and yes, essentially we have hidden links that are very similar to the ones that you saw in the non-flash version. They're just moved off the screen so normally they wouldn't show up but they allow you to get to the accessible content which includes--
[ Pause ]
>> --which includes the list of slide shows that are shown in the video, it includes the list of videos that are listed in the flash player. Because actually when you look at the flash player it actually includes a lot of hidden content as well so, we tried to make sure to accommodate that and present this in this kind of old fashioned HTML version. And then you can go, and go to the video, video page itself and here this player is technically accessible so you can make flash accessible. It's just very hard to do so we want a different route and just make sure that there is alternative content to all the content that is being presented within the flash, modules, and even, well, and I'm--yes.
>> We actually have lot of internal links and pieces of content that aren't visible or revealed when just loading the browser, loading the page in a standard browser with everything turned on. They are controlled by CSS, by style definitions that pretty much remove them when being displayed on a browser like this, but they are there and in fact are very nice not just for accessibility but for usability to alternate platforms like, if you were to access the site through a phone based mobile device it would not load the CSS and would actually provide you with links to internal pieces of content even on a page as short as the homepage because it would actually on a tiny little phone display requires a lot of thumb scrolling to even get down to just what is content that is displayed you know immediately upon loading in normal web browser on a normal compute display.
>> Right so one, one good way to see how this page looks is essentially to just disable all of the style it should support and then you can see more of a version that someone on a screen reader would use. Just to elaborate on Tom's point is we use kind of image replacement so we can see that Indiana University Bloomington for example is a header 1 and then we use this image that replacement that then--that displays the style that we wanted to use on this page, similar for you know About IU. This is header 2 and then we just use an image replacement kind of styles in a way that we want the users to see but it's still kind of maintains the header order and we've heard from Margaret that this actually makes the use of this of the page easier.
>> And that was an approach that was new to me, it's kind of like the alternative to alternative text rather than having an image that was a graphical representation of a text treatment on your page and then just providing that same text as alternative text in the image tagged, you actually, it's just literally just plain text in the HTML and then the CSS goes through and does a transform, a replace and takes out that simple text and replaces it with an image if you have all of your, all of those settings enabled in your browser but if you turn off style sheets or you turn off image loading you actually just get the normal plain text which is what is literally coded into the page.
[ Inaudible Remark ]
>> Excellent. Nolan, did you have a question, I saw your hand up earlier.
[ Inaudible Question ]
>> Well that is, that is entirely due to the talent of Greg and his team of programmers and creative services and Mary, John, and Margaret in the adapted technology and accessibility center for helping us provide the this in as accessible format as we were able to given our time and technology limitations and I do just want to make the point again that we do not consider this to be perfection. This is a work in progress and we actually have even right now an accessibility evaluation from Margaret's team and a usability evaluation from the user experience group that are both sitting on my desk waiting with a full list of action items that we need to address.
>> Yes, so there is plenty more that could be done through this. I think this is a good point. We had a very short development timeline on this project and there are number of things that we just didn't get to but you know thanks to, you know, Margaret's group we had a whole list of improvements that could be done to this site in the future and we'll be working on those for the next weeks, weeks and months.
>> It is worth noting that despite our unrealistically short timeline for completing this project, we were able to build it in an accessible fashion because again we were knowledgeable of the issues. We were committed to developing the right way and we had the infrastructure available to us to allow us to do so.
[ Inaudible Question ]
>> Right, essentially I think that, so the question was that in the form that we saw there was a way to put closed captioning information, so you know a piece of text and the time code at which it would appear, how would we enter the transcript for the video. So the approach that we took was that any video that's featured or you know Tom can correct me if I'm wrong but any video that's featured on the Bloomington homepage is required to have the closed captioning information. So a video wouldn't be featured without the closed captioning information. But the transcript, we're actually generating the transcript automatically, so.
[ Inaudible Question ]
>> Right. So, right now the only way to enter it is through a webform. Now the Web CMS does support integration of external XML sources. In fact the news and event feeds here, you know, the event feeds is just an RSS feed but the news feed is actually a custom XML feed. So you can import an external XML file and have it process that, however, there are some issues with that specifically. XML and XSLT are very touchy so it has to be, so there is no room for error there. So it has to validate and it has to validate exactly otherwise you know it won't work. So like you said you could, we could just do an external XML feed and essentially use that for the closed captioning information and the transcript but in order to make this stable, we chose an approach in which it has to be done through a webform and you know, you know maybe it will change but at this point in time that's kind of how it works and we timed it and I think it takes about 15 seconds to enter one closed captioning information by an intern so, you know, it's not that huge of a time commitment if you have an infrastructure to accommodate this, you know the stuffing, yes.
>> So technically, we should be able to do what you're asking it and upload a transcript with timestamps and have it converted to closed captioning but like Greg said it's just, it is so touchy and has to be so precise and exactly the right format that it makes it untenable. I mean you spend as much time formatting your transcript file to get it just right so it will actually complete upload successfully, that it's just as easy to go in and enter the transcript, the closed captioning line by line, and then a assemble the transcript out of that.
>> So I would say if this closed captioning information was coming from another CMS or another application that was XML compliant, I would say yes, go for it. If someone is typing this in manually and submitting it, it maybe, it may just be more trouble than its worth then and they might just fill out the form.
>> So for the, just as in the side, for the videos that are available through the homepage right now, we actually used an automated private sector transcription service because these videos were created by a different unit within the university, without closed captioning or transcription, so to make use of these videos and adhere to our own self-imposed standards we had to create closed captioning in transcripts for these videos so we got some transcription done by paying an outside vendor and then entering that information into the content management system ourselves. The ideal is that as we progress from here and videos are created by our units or by other units in partnership, specifically for the purpose of being featured on the campus homepage that transcription and captioning will be actually part of the workflow of the creation and submission of those videos. So as if it's a video created from a script, you know that's a nice foundation from which to create a transcript or some captioning or if someone is spending hours in front of the computer editing and producing this video then it would then hopefully be their responsibility to as they do so create a text, transcript, caption and document that they would then turn into us at the time at which they submit their video.
>> Does anybody else have any other questions? I just like to say, at the end it was a wonderful partnership and very helpful for the adapted technology and accessibility center to provide the services that we did and I think these shows that it took many groups who--to work on and get to this point with the project. One thing that hasn't been mentioned that I believe is true is that because they're using a content management system not a course management system, is that there is a template that can be reused and so once you knock some of these accessibility issues and have a template. Although what they're talking about in terms of providing these transcripts and the captions still is time consuming and complicated. You have a skeleton that someone who may not be that well versed in accessible web development can use so that's a giant step forward for accessibility or at least has the potential to be. I think it's always important to include those that are the users of adaptive technology and approach information access from the perspective of individual's disabilities to be involved in the testing because no matter how many validators or validation tools you use, you can always learn something from seeing how a person who is perhaps blind goes about accessing the information. It's just going to be different than the way someone who is sighted things about it and so that's always helpful. There's always something that's revealed in that process although the validators and we use FAE from the University of Illinois does a good job at elucidating some of the difficult spots. I would like to very much thank our panel who took time out from their busy days to come and present to us today and let's give them a warm round of applause.
[ Applause ]
[ Pause ]
>> We are suppose to have the reception begins at 5:30 in the Georgian Room which gives people time to take laptops, divest themselves should they so choose of their technology and spend an evening having a good time at the reception and then a group is going to go from the reception to a local restaurant, the name of which is Cafe Jango which has international and American fair and everyone here is welcomed to join us including the panelists if they choose to do that and tomorrow I really hate to bring this up but A, there is a tomorrow. We only got halfway through the work of the breakout session groups and B, it starts at 7 in the morning.
>> But that's for the breakfast and the actual work begins at 8. So judge how much you want to eat and where you want to eat but please plan to be here with boots on for working by 8 o'clock and we will continue the work that we started today, and I'd like to thank everyone who was here for the first part of this 2-day conference and we will now disperse for fun and frolicking.
[ Silence ]
[ Applause ]
==== Transcribed by Automatic Sync Technologies ====